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I have spent the past few days in Canada, and everywhere I go people ask me about how China is reacting to the torch protests. I was a guest on the Al Ferraby show in Victoria this morning, and he too admitted that there is not enough information in Canada from China’s point of view.
I’ll be on a flight to Hong Kong in a few hours, so thought I’d pass this along in the meantime: A good friend has sent me a Tianya post which summarizes, in the author’s view, why the west (and United States in particular) is protesting China. This student goes by the online name of 仁者无敌, which roughly translates into “The Benevolent Have No Enemy”. He is a Chinese overseas student in Germany who recently attended a seminar called “Human Rights in Asia”. (The full Tianya post – in Chinese – can be found here. The author provided the translation.)
1. Historic review
Human right problem of China became a focal point to criticize China only after the foundation of PRC. This was based on severe ideological conflict. When china became a rising power, the western countries consider China as a strong potential enemy. Human right becomes an important civil weapon against China.
2. Malicious strategy of the US
Since the iron curtain was established after the Second World War, the US started to lead the western party, fighting for its own global strategic profit against the communistic world. After the disassembly of USSR, China became the only remaining potential enemy power against American global supremacy. The US established a malicious strategy, putting china into a dilemma.
First, the US wanted to repeat the victory against the USSR – to force China racing on armament. To achieve this, they apply deterrent (threatening) against China with extensive military pressure. China was forced to develop its economy and military force as fast as possible. China made his best to make economic and military wonder, but the price for this ultimate efficiency was the depression of social morality, unjust and severe environmental pollution.
Then, the US used the human rights as a moral weapon. In one aspect, the human right was an effective factor to establish solidarity all over the world against China. In western world, the mentality was similar. Western people tend to pay more attention on individual rights. With this method, the whole western world, from government to people, can be united against Chinese government. In another aspect, the overflow of the criticism against human rights in china can provoke the attention of the Chinese people on the accumulating unjust. This decreases the trust of people to the government, accumulating the anti-governmental force.
The power of China is based on its united reign and stable social community. In Chinese history, none of the dynasties died because of being invaded. They died because of the unstable society, and the invasions were just catalyst. If the anti-governmental force is strong enough, the current Chinese government will be undermined, and this biggest potential enemy will be turned into a new colony of western countries. This is proven by the history.
3. Popular psychology of western people
Western culture was based on nomad culture. A very dominant feature of nomad culture is that when a tribe is strong enough, he will definitely invade other tribes to control more territories and more resources, because they will soon deplete their own resources in a limited time. This means that every rising power will be a future enemy. Actually, the history of China proved that china, based on agricultural culture, has never invaded other countries for more territories or resources. But as western people don’t understand this because of the different basis of culture, severe misunderstanding exists.
Nomad cultures believe in jungle rule, while agricultural cultures don’t. Based on this, the colonization history provides the western people an important mentality: superiority over Chinese people (as well as almost all the Asian people). Because of this superiority and arrogance, they don’t want to make effort to understand Asian cultures.
But the rapid development of China challenges the superiority of western people. The daily life of western people is largely dependent on China. The economy of western countries (especially Europe) is closely connected with China. Nowadays, China is independent of western countries on most high technologies. If you don’t sell a product to China, Chinese people will make it (even better ones) in a short time. If you don’t sell are source to China, we can find enough in our huge territory. This kind of asymmetrical dependence, i.e. western countries depend on China while China is relatively independent on western countries, raised huge panic of western people.
Because of the misunderstanding of Chinese culture, western people believe that china is no more a potential enemy, but a practical enemy, an enemy against their superiority. No one wants his enemy to live happily. However, the life of western people is highly dependent on China. They don’t have enough ability to change the situation in the near future. So they dare not to see that China is already strong and prominent. They dare not to confess that they are being exceeded by China. They dare not to confess that any change on Chinese policy will deeply affect their life. They dare not to see that China is developing. In a word, they dare not to admit the fact that the former “lower class” China, is defeating them. So they have to filter out all the positive facts in China. They want to collect all the dark side of China to persuade themselves that “China is still very bad”. This ostrich psychology can only relieve themselves from panic for a short while.
The best proof is that in the 1980s, when China is still very poor, and the ideological conflict was largely relieved, there were very less criticism on human rights problems in China. When the time flies, in 1990s, there were more and more criticisms on human right problems.
4. Globalization: strike to the self-confidence of western people
It seems unbelievable, but it’s true.
A couple of years ago, Hamburg lowered the salary standard of workers. The reason was that some big companies wanted to move their factories to China, resulting tens of thousands of unemployment in Hamburg. Everyone knows that China is the world factory because we have cheaper workers. The Hamburg workers have to lower their salary in order to keep their job. This is just an example of the general lowering of salaries in all western countries. This is a natural result of globalization, because globalization makes the whole world as an entire market. But lowering the salary means lowering the living standards. Of course the western people complain. It’s very likely that they believe that China is the reason why they live worse than before.
Actually, the western companies in China make many serious human rights problems:

  • They force Chinese workers to work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
  • They pollute the environment in China.
  • They give extremely less salary to the workers, without paying any social insurance.
  • They lower the protection of the workers, resulting many irreversible industrial diseases, but the companies refuse to be responsible for that.

Obviously, these problems are based on the greedy western capitalists, not China. They want to make more money, but they cause serious human rights in China, and also cause problems in western countries. Of course, these greedy capitalists won’t confess that they are guilty for that. In their own country, they mislead the public opinion against China.
Since they have caused a lot of human rights problems in China, this is a good excuse to blame China.
Because of the historic and practical reasons, the western world, from government to people, would like to criticize China, especially on the human rights problems. Their aim of criticism is not to help Chinese people to live happier, but to try to make China poorer, less stable, less efficient, less developed, less challenging, less competent, and so on.  
5. Sovereignty is the basis of human rights
The very basic human rights are the rights of survive, the right of development, and the right to keep his own dignity. The first line of German constitution is “The dignity of human beings is protected.”
Without these very basic human rights, the other human rights are just Utopia.
In a country without its own sovereignty, the people there don’t have those very basic human rights. We see the real examples in the history:
The US said that they wanted to bring human rights to Kosovo and Iraq. The US defeated their government and controlled those areas. But in those areas, do the inhabitants get more rights? They worry if they will be robbed or killed tomorrow. The US soldiers can torture man freely, rape women freely. That is the life without sovereignty.
If these areas are so far away from us, let’s see the history of Germany in 1949-1950. An old German lady told me a story. After Germany was defeated, the French soldiers controlled her hometown. The Germans didn’t have any rights. If the French soldiers were unhappy, they can catch any German freely and torture him or her, just for fun. The French soldiers lived in their beautiful house, and her family was driven into the small, cold and humid basement. She got serious problems in all of her joints – arthritis, till now. The French soldiers robbed her food. So her family was very often starved. Her neighbor was even starved to death. No one cares. Till now, this lady is still afraid of fireworks, because this will revoke her tragic memory. That is the life without sovereignty.
Besides the French soldiers, the Soviet soldiers raped over 2 million German women, according to the incomplete statistics. That is the life without sovereignty.
China suffered this kind of tragedy 70 years ago. We never forget that miserable history, and we don’t want that this tragedy happens again to us. We don’t want to be the second Kosovo, the second Iraq, or the second Germany, because we don’t want a life without our own sovereignty.
Yes, you can write a long list, listing huge amount of cases that the individual human rights were broken in China. But this is much better than the semi-colony period. At least, now we have our very basic rights. Our rights to survive and rights of dignity are secured by our military force. 

6. Force is everything

Basically; Chinese culture is based on agricultural culture. This basis determines that China won’t be an invading country; China won’t be an enemy against anyone, even when it’s strong. But the western countries forced us to join the game of their jungle rule. Just like Napoleon’s famous sentence “China is a sleeping lion. Don’t wake him up.” The western countries forced us to wake up. And this lion roars.
In this world, if we come to the international affairs, we clearly see that there is no virtue and morality. The only determinant is the force. Of course, this force includes military, economy and culture. Now China is accumulating strong force, and the other Asian countries are also developing. The Asian power is rising in the world.
The US also has many serious human rights problems. They might be just a little bit better than in China – if at all. Why the criticism against American human rights problems is so less in the world, comparing to the criticisms against China? Very simple, because the US is very powerful, much more powerful than any other current power in the world. So, according to the western philosophy and history, the best way of China to get rid of the criticism is that we develop our country until we are much stronger than any western country. At that time, it’s our turn to criticize the western countries on the human rights, and no one dares to criticize us
Yes, we have problems. But we develop. Not like the western countries, we don’t have colonies all over the world. We have to accumulate every single cent by our effort. We will solve these problems, but not immediately, not under the pressure of western countries. We will solve these problems by ourselves.
We live happily in Asia. We live happily without you western countries. We welcome the communication with good will, of course. But we have to keep our sovereignty, because this is the basis of all the other human rights. We have our own culture and we have our own standards. We don’t have to accept your standards. We have our own way to develop. We don’t have to follow your way. The history has proven many times: China is a very good friend to the friendly people, but will be definitely a nightmare to hostility.
If you really want to do something to help China to improve the human rights, please do three things:

  1. Stop your prejudice and hostility. Throw away your arrogance.
  2. Come to respect, understand and experience our culture deeply.
  3. Make the US less hostile to China.

If you can’t do these, you, the western countries, should better shut up. You won’t make things better. This is none of your business.
Human right is not an issue to discuss. Human right is an issue to fight for.

 
 

52 Comments

  1. XniteMan says:

    I have read this article before, it’s very nice.
    BTW, “仁者无敌”, doesn’t mean “The Benevolent Have No Enemy”, it means “The Benevolent Cannot be Beaten”.

  2. Cam says:

    Xniteman:
    Thanks for the correction. My Chinese isn’t so good yet!

  3. XniteMan says:

    Cam,
    Well, after thinking it over, I think it can mean either way. I guess its original meaning is your translation :)

  4. Pierre says:

    “Human right problem of China became a focal point to criticize China only after the foundation of PRC. This was based on severe ideological conflict.”
    Huh ? No one knew what human rights was before 1949 !! And by the way, between 1911 and 1949, no Chinese government had enough power and control of the country to violate anybody’s rights and freedom. No Chinese government can defend them either, even if the Chinese, and the world, knew what these were either. No one can blame Chinese government on things it was not able to do, and things no one realized was a problem.
    The rest of his post can be ignored after that. This is a piece based on ignorant speculation and nothing more.

  5. Pierre says:

    “无敌” in classical Chinese never meant “no enemy”. It always meant “invincible”, “undefeated”.

  6. Neddy says:

    Good grief, is this for real, or is somebody just taking a piss out of us? Because if this pile of verbal manure is what an otherwise intelligent and educated person in China would believe, then China is in deep trouble. All by itself, and no need for the evil West to do anything. If I were a Chinese, I would be offended. As it is, I can only be sorry for the twat who wrote it, and the suckers who gobble it up.
    Apart from that, it is a good comic book material. That way, even the more severely challenged comrades/patriots could benefit from seeing the light.

  7. Lindel says:

    They have forgotten the meaning of 仁者 or by choice no longer practice benevolence. Which is why they fear losing control so much and clamp down further going deeper into a hole. If they desire for 无敌 then they should try harder to practice 仁者 without fear.

  8. E says:

    So… let me get this correctly. A Chinese person who does not understand “western culture” (if there is such a thing) at all, asks people from western countries to “Come to respect, understand and experience our culture deeply”

  9. 孙安 says:

    (L)China!!
    Truly we’ve never invaded any other country. The Vietnamese are all liars and the notion of nationhood developed so late in history that our glorious marches west for more territory cannot be said to have affected other “countries.” And don’t bother asking why Sichuan, which is about as smack dab in the middle in the of China as you can get is called “Western China” today. Oh, and the Jurchens who formed the various Jin and Qing Dynasties were always Chinese so those changes in political power were purely social unrest like he said. Finally since the term “human rights” was coined by Thomas Paine around the time of the American Revolution it has thus held the same predominance in national consciousness and policy decisions around the world in the 1770′s as it does today so the big increase in discussion about what rights are and how they operate that began since the earlier half of this century was clearly aimed solely at keeping China down. You damn westerners and your jungle mentality…

  10. N Credible says:

    Why is there a tendency among Chinese to go from one extreme – westerners are violent and jealous and fearful of China’s meteoric rise – to the other, that they are peaceful, farming folk who, even when powerful, would never hurt another?
    I think the Tibet protests were misguided, and that boycotting the Olympics is misguided too, but what I cannot stand is this simpleminded, revisionist utopian view that the gentle Chinese are, again, under assault from the barbarians.
    And what “research” led this buffoon to come to the idea that China comes from agrarian roots but the west was founded by nomads???? WTF? Have nomadic societies survived all this time by eating canned goods and NOT working the land?
    This sounds like the plot for a low grade western, where gentle and simple folk must rise up against the interlopers, unshaven men, chavs on horseback, bent on raping and pillaging while the simple folk merely want to grow vegetables and remain as they have been for millenia, the salt of the earth, so humble and one with the land.
    Whats really sad is that these are often people smart enough to study abroad. Is the CCP keeping all the smart ones at home and sending the US and UK all of China’s version of Pat Buchanan and the BNP? Christ on a cracker, that guy was full of shit.
    I wish I was still in Shanghai, I would love to ask my colleagues and neighbors do they believe stuff like this.

  11. superfan says:

    Dear Louis,
    I’m curious: do you actually support this? Surely your understanding of Chinese and Western history goes a little deeper than this post suggests. I understand you didn’t write it, but I’m honestly very eager to hear your view. Is this “counter attack” a spoof? It must be. I can think of no other reason for the sweeping generalizations and overt factual errors. Eagerly awaiting your reply.
    Sincerely,
    Your Biggest Fan.

  12. dd says:

    Not sure why you are giving this junk space on your blog – i’m pretty sure most educated Chinese aren’t this ignorant.

  13. J B says:

    I recently got a similar essay from a Chinese friend. It was interesting in that unlike this guy, the author came close to realizing that this isn’t some conspiracy- Bush isn’t boycotting the Olympics, France also criticized the US for invading Iraq and can hardly be said to be an American lackey, and anyway France has also tried to suck up to China before (eg, it stopped selling weapons to Taiwan).
    However, his conclusion was that Tibet was a smokescreen, and it really was a Western plot to make China bear the burden of the West’s economic woes. I’m not sure why the West would need or want a smokescreen, or how exactly the Tibet/ Olympics issue works as a smokescreen, but what I found most interesting was the insistence that there must be a Western plot against China, no matter how flimsy the evidence. It’s like the conclusion has been reached first, then they find evidence.

  14. Lindel says:

    Here in washington dc most people are talking about the democratic primary, the visit by the Pope, and a protest held in washington by some neo-nazi group and how they were attacked by counter protestors. The biggest issue is probably $120 a barrel oil.
    I can’t find any reports by any media in the US that covered the 300 college students protesting at capital hill on April 19th. Only Xinhua and the chinese government covered this. There may have been some mention of on local televison, but I didn’t see it and I can’t find any reports. Washington Post reported the protests elsewhere.
    After seeing many similar rants from so many young chinese it is really clear that they are not up to handling issues such as property rights and rule of law requirements levied on China when it joined the world trade organization (WTO).

  15. BOB says:

    If the Chinese generally premise their dealings with the West and Westerners on the existence of a pervasive foreign anti-Chinese conspiracy, then I don’t see any basis for an honest, meaningful relationship between the Chinese and Westerners. The notion of a Western, anti-Chinese conspiracy has the effect of creating a psychic Great Wall. It also has the effect of shifting power to the security apparatus to combat the Western anti-China conspiracy. Huge problem for the West, and for China!

  16. Louis says:

    Why I show this post to cam?
    Because I believe it’s time for China to improve its PR skills. Compared to the very “unprofessional” and silly coverage by CNN and BBC and whatever, this author is much more serious and precise and “professional” with his article. If western media can tell crap and lie everyday in such a “justifying” way (check out anti-cnn.com), this author is just fighting against them in a much more “making sense” way. It’s very credible to me. To me it’s a piece of good information for China to use as PR materials. At least it’s a reflection of careful thoughts, not silly ignorant lies. In this point, the author is much respected and brilliant than those liars. And in that sense, it’s our time to counter-attack using comparatively credible information in terms of PR! Fire in the hole!!!
    Just check out this author’s article with any average Chinese, you’ll feel disappointed and amazing at how same the response would be.
    I never knew I had a “super fan”. But if you do listen to my show “Third Wheel” on EZ FM, it is great. Thanks for your supporting. You want to know what I believe, then I tell you what I believe. It’s the same idea that I told Cam before:
    “If you really want to do something to help China to improve the human rights, please do the things below:
    Stop your prejudice and hostility. Throw away your arrogance.
    Come to respect, understand and experience our culture deeply.
    If you can’t do these, you, the western countries, should better shut up. You won’t make things better. This is none of your business.
    Human right is not an issue to discuss. Human right is an issue to fight for.”
    Frankly speaking, I am not against any western cultures. I think the charming point of this globe is that there are so many different peoples and cultures co-existing together, which is called “diversity”. I’m an English major and my big sister is Japanese major who is working in Germany now. My whole family is open-minded or ready to see the foreign world(at least I think so), but if the western world is determined to think us 1.4 billion Chinese are brain-washed and like a “shit-hole”(someone mentioned before): if the western world wants to humiliate us Chinese when we try our best to hold the coming up Olympic Game to show our friendliness and good hope to join the international community; and if the western world always think evil of us no matter what we do or what we say, then I have to choose a stance. A stance that most of 1.4 billion Chinese would choose. And you know the stance.
    We Chinese have been in where we were for thousands of years, and i’m sure we will be. If the so called “international community” or globalization says no to us, it’s ok. We don’t mind. And don’t mind us. The globe is still rotating no matter you like us or hate us, right?
    Premier Zhou Enlai (who is loved and respected by every Chinese generation, close friend of Chairman Mao) once said (maybe I’m wrong with the source, but it was said by a respected Chinese leader)”we Chinese love peace, coz we suffered a lot during the past century, but don’t mis-interpret it, we are not afraid of any war.”
    Accusation does not help. Humiliation does not help. Even threatening does not help! If you want us to be like N Korea, so be it. We were not afraid, we are not afraid and we will not be afraid.
    I think being rational is right, but right now maybe it’s better for us to be a bit irrational and passionate.
    Please forgive me. I know my English sucks, sometimes. But I do hope you can get the message conveyed from my post, which is:
    “Stop your prejudice and hostility. Throw away your arrogance. Come to respect, understand and experience our culture deeply. “

  17. Lindel says:

    Too bad Zhou Enlai and Deng Xiaoping are not around. I’m sure they would not be happy with the emotional immaturity and selfish of all the little emperors and empresses.
    I’m sure they would be moving quickly to take care of the exploitative and racist cadres abusing the tibetan minorities.
    It’s not a question of proper english, but the fact that you are stringing together half truths amd false accusations about matters of you which you totally ignorant.

  18. BingMaYong says:

    This is a very good blog and you guys are really good thinkers. I am a Chinese and have been lived in Australia for few years. The torch relay run earlier today in Cabrera. There were huge gathering of Pro-China supporters numbered about 15,00-20,00. Of course you know most of them were young students. And of course in the current crazy time, many of them were over nationalistic. Of course predictable things happened in a such big public gathering full of emotional youth.
    Please have a look at Daily Telegraph http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/comments/0,22058,23591375-5001021,00.html and Sydney Morning Herald http://www.smh.com.au/news/beijing2008/olympic-torch–relay-thugs-blasted/2008/04/24/1208743117724.html?page=2 how they titled the news with “thugs” “riot” on all top of 20000 people and most of them were well behalved. If you have a look at the most comments made by angolu Australians like”deport all Chinese” “they are CCP agents” ”boycott Chinese goods” blah blah. These Aussies are just the same with the hot blooded over nationalistic Chinese youth. BBC site reported it as “smooth run”
    I have PDF version of the Aussie comments if the page removed when you look at it. I’ll send you the PDF.

  19. superfan says:

    Thank you Louis. I appreciate the effort you made in your response. It shows, at least to me, that you’re thoughtful and are quite serious in expressing how you feel.
    I have on occasion listened to your program and appreciate what you do.
    Again, thanks for your time. The explanation you offered sheds light on a line of thought that’s often brushed under the rug.
    But please be careful with quotation marks (“”). They aren’t necessary–you could have expressed you point much more clearly without them.
    Best,
    fan

  20. XniteMan says:

    Guys, interesting comments. I’m curious about your views on the color revolutions and the western role in them :)

  21. Neddy says:

    @ BingMaYong
    It is all very much in the eye of the beholder: Those articles you link to, are actually quite fair, the headlines notwithstanding. The majority of pro-China demonstrators may have behaved reasonably, but the incidents of bullying pro-Tibet side, or, even worse, bystanders sympathetic to Tibet cause, do not appear to be “manufactured evidence”. And resentment here to that is not an issue of “Aussie hotheads”. It is a kind of behaviour that simply does not wash down well in this land of Oz. Add to this the thinly veiled signs that the bumper attendance on pro-China side was not entirely spontaneous (read: subsdised from “outside”)… Yes, I agree with others that it was a smooth run, by and by.
    No, I would not advocate these students be deported. They are not CCP agents (although some of those may have organised the show). They are just suckers, effectively. What I can suggest, though, is that if you want respect, you have to earn it, and if you seek another’s understanding, you have to reciprocate; it is a two-way street. What goes round, comes around…
    Good luck.

  22. hualian says:

    New update on the Carrefour “mob” incident from the Shanghaiist.”Volunteer in China: “I was not in fact attacked by a mob”
    http://shanghaiist.com/2008/04/24/volunteer_in_ch.php

  23. Hai says:

    To Neddy,
    Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can’t earn respect from someone who has a stone head, the one even can’t see or sense you were trying. You only can earn respect from people who believe mutual-respect and who have good wills to practice it.
    You always can blame us for not working hard to have people’s heart. You have the right to think so, just like we have the right to finally realize that we don’t need to do the things to make other people happy by following their standard.
    All the things happened around the torch relay had me learned that the double-standard is really working well. Pot calls kettle black. Let’s be the pot.

  24. Neddy says:

    @ Hai
    Good point. Listen to yourself, look in the mirror. Enough said.

  25. Hai says:

    To Neddy,
    Same to you. Let’s be ourselves. Don’t pretend to be what we think we should be. We’re not. We might be able to cheat ourselves, but we can’t fool others.
    Same to you.

  26. Balboa says:

    Louis, what have you been smoking?
    Unlike you, I am not going to speak for the majority of the “Western world” – whatever that might mean, or the “1.4 billion Chinese”.
    But I will speak for myself. It is clear to me that the “international community” will never say “no” to China… not now, not ever. Of the millions of examples I could choose from, I will pick this one: the IOC would have long ago revoked China’s “right” to hold the Olympics, not least because it has broken, failed to honor, or simply done the opposite of almost every promise that it made at bidding time.
    Your paranoid, regressive, isolationist views (at one point in your “argument” you imply that China would be happy to return to its North Korea-esque days, if the “west” wanted it to) are silly. This is a “globalized” world – interaction between “states” and “powers” takes place daily, at an unprecedented pace. Personally I do not think that China is a “shit-hole” (though some parts of it, like every other country, inevitably are).
    If you think that article is a “piece of good information for China to use as PR materials”, you are as backward-thinking as a Xinhua old hand.
    You say:
    “If you really want to do something to help China to improve the human rights, please do the things below:
    Stop your prejudice and hostility. Throw away your arrogance.
    Come to respect, understand and experience our culture deeply.
    If you can’t do these, you, the western countries, should better shut up. You won’t make things better. This is none of your business.
    Human right is not an issue to discuss. Human right is an issue to fight for.”
    Ironic that you start off your tips list with a prejudicial and hostile remark. I think you had better “shut up”.
    The oxymoronic quote from that Chinese to which you refer, is, by the way, ridiculous. It’s almost as poorly a designed idea as the current “peaceful rise”.
    Good luck to you in life.
    @ “Superfan”, don’t “knock” “”” till you “try” it. It’s a lot of “fun” ;-)

  27. Balboa says:

    And I see that you refer to “human right” in the singular rather than the plural.
    Is there some Freudian thing going on there that deep down, you know that the only human right you have is the right to be born? From day one you and your life is in the hands of the gov’t.

  28. Mistah Kirtz says:

    Being a Pacifist, is an ideal. I subscribe to it. I’m against violence. But, only CONCEPTUALLY, if you threaten my child, I wouldn’t think twice about snapping your neck on the spot.
    Get ready, ’cause here comes the truth:
    America is the world’s only hope for a bright future.
    I know you live in another country and your country is cool, too. But, America is the only Superpower. There are no others. And that means, the world is a better place. Because if Nazi Germany or Communist Russia were the only superpowers, we would all be either dead or forced to live under their regimes.
    America is not interested in ruling your country. If you think it does, smoking crack may be your answer.
    The whole world would have become a Communist World, if American didn’t stand up to Russia…don’t kid yourself.
    And, I believe if you don’t have the guts to stand up to injustice, where ever it exists (and that means stopping the Germans, the Japanese and the Italians in WW I and WW II…or the Albanian Serbs in Bosnia…or the tragedies that keep on occurring in Africa…or even the Viet Nam War….Panama…North Korea…the list goes on and on)…
    One thing in common with all these events: AMERICA.
    America didn’t stay and “conquer” ANY OF THESE COUNTRIES.
    I am not American, by the way.

  29. Balboa says:

    @ Mistah Kurtz,
    You say America is the only hope for a bright future?
    I disagree – all the light bulbs are made in China.
    Pity they never appear over the heads of the ruling authorities, though.

  30. Mistah Kirtz says:

    Ah yes, the lightbulb…ALSO invented in America.
    Pretty cool, huh?

  31. BingMaYong says:

    To Neddy,
    Bullying the other side is not right. it happens on every rivalry protest especially full of youth. It would have be a surprise if it did not happen.
    You are right, they are suckers, if you want respect, you have to earn it, and if you seek another’s understanding, you have to reciprocate. Because some are suckers. So you don’t respect the race they belong to. The bashing, the shooting, the raping almost happen daily in Sydney. So you don’t respect the race the criminals belong to. you have no one to respect. What a wonderful logic.
    A 65 years old man has been bashed by two youth on his way to an Anzac Day dawn service in Melbourne early this morning reported by smh.com.au. If you have a look at the story you will know which race they suspects belong to. So the race has lost your respect.
    When Serbs and Croats clashed during the soccer match or tennis match in Australia. Aussie see they were normal. Nobody was talking about deport them all. When Italian waved Italian flags and Greek waved their flags to show their national pride in Sydney after the soccer match. There was no single question of “why they wave their flags in our country” .When Chinese waved Chinese flags to show the pride so many comments you can see of “why those Chinese waved their flags in our land?”. We can only see how double standard we are.
    Today is ANZAC day. I took kids to see the march. We waved Aussie flags. We were cheering with all other people to see the pride and to show the respect.
    Everyone knows it is the day of pride. It’s not the day to discuss was the ANZAC a invasion to a country never attacked Australia soil. It is not a day to protest solders who flatted the Vietnamese village in the 70’ . It’s not a day to protest troops who were killing in Iraq. The same applies Olympic pride.

  32. BingMaYong says:

    To Neddy,
    Bullying the other side is not right. it happens on every rivalry protest especially full of youth. It would have be a surprise if it did not happen.
    You are right, they are suckers, if you want respect, you have to earn it, and if you seek another’s understanding, you have to reciprocate. Because some are suckers. So you don’t respect the race they belong to. The bashing, the shooting, the raping almost happen daily in Sydney. So you don’t respect the race the criminals belong to. you have no one to respect. What a wonderful logic.
    A 65 years old man has been bashed by two youth on his way to an Anzac Day dawn service in Melbourne early this morning reported by smh.com.au. If you have a look at the story you will know which race they suspects belong to. So the race has lost your respect.
    When Serbs and Croats clashed during the soccer match or tennis match in Australia. Aussie see they were normal. Nobody was talking about deport them all. When Italian waved Italian flags and Greek waved their flags to show their national pride in Sydney after the soccer match. There was no single question of “why they wave their flags in our country” .When Chinese waved Chinese flags to show the pride so many comments you can see of “why those Chinese waved their flags in our land?”. We can only see how double standard we are.
    Today is ANZAC day. I took kids to see the march. We waved Aussie flags. We were cheering with all other people to see the pride and to show the respect.
    Everyone knows it is the day of pride. It’s not the day to discuss was the ANZAC a invasion to a country never attacked Australia soil. It is not a day to protest solders who flatted the Vietnamese village in the 70’ . It’s not a day to protest troops who were killing in Iraq. The same applies Olympic pride.

  33. tommydickfingers says:

    I always get confused when this “china has never invaded another country” gets thrown up.
    So the Yuan Dynasty wasn’t Chinese (cause they certainly invaded a fair few countries)? And if they are not Chinese, does that not put into question all the justifications for Tibet being part of China?

  34. acha_manian says:

    first of all, i commend u for the effort it must have taken to write this article considering that english is obviously not ur forte…
    this article is far too long and full of inaccuracies, biases and mistakes for me to properly critique right now, but i will point out 2 things that stood out to me.
    1. china is not resource-rich as u have implied. china imports huge amounts of energy (coal and petroleum) and iron ore because its own natural deposits are inadequate for its size. this is why china has been aggressive in supporting despotic regimes in energy-rich countries like sudan.
    2. it is true that western companies exploit low paid workers in china (and many many other countries as well, china is in no way unique in this matter). but u must surely realize that these practices are encouraged by the communists. they market china as a cheap labour destination to the west because they want western investment money to flow into china. this was one of the major driving factors behind the huge growth in the chinese economy over the last 2 decades.
    anyway, i’ll leave u to think about that. i could keep going like this for hours

  35. BingMaYong says:

    “china has never invaded another country” is totally incorect. Any Chinese finished high school knows this.

  36. XniteMan says:

    Well, just think I should point out that, of course there are many inaccuracies in this article, and they might be meant to be in. This article is not a publishment on any media, or the web, but a talk given by a student in a seminar, as part of a discussion. In such cases it might be wise to put some flame baits in your speech, to lure your opponent to point them out, and thus leading the discussion to topics you are confident on.

  37. bbb says:

    Come on people, you guys have never heard of Color Revolution? Go do some googlings and try to find out who were behind all those “peaceful evolutions”.

  38. Balboa says:

    @ Mistah K,
    Inventing something, and mass producing something, are usually two very different things. Hence the f-cking IPR problems in the world’s factory.

  39. stoogie says:

    @Mistah,
    Yes, indeed the yanks did invented the light bulb and what a good light bulb it was during WWII.
    But somehow, after half a century, the yankee light bulb is getting a lot dimmer due to too much arrogance and lack of wisdom.
    In the not so distant future, the yankee bulb will be out of service and we are not going to sale you any.
    You mobs will live for ever in darkness.

  40. jay says:

    I disagree with so many of the claims you make – but I’ll just settle on one – your claim that China doesn’t have a history of invading other peoples lands. There are so many examples of Chinese invading other peoples land throughout history up to present times. Most of the invasions were of other Chinese kingdoms but there’s also Turkestan, Tibet, Vietnam, Korea, India and Nanxia. Chinese don’t like to think about it but today’s China is a colonial power – wielding control over Tibet and Turkestan (Xinjiang) where the native peoples don’t want Chinese control. And China continuously threatens Taiwan. China is constantly pushing beyond the Han Chinese homeland to subjugate others.

  41. Oliver says:

    Too often in recent Western media reporting and from speaking to overseas Tibetans involve in the independence movement, I notice an undercurrent of racist sentiment. Many in the media and the Tibetan independence movement asserted that Tibet was not a part of China during the Yuan and Qing dynasties because these two dynasties were not “Chinese” but Mongolian and Manchurian since their founders were not of the “Han race”.
    However, many Tibetans and Westerners seem to forget that “China” did not exist back then. China as a political entity in the Western political sense came into existence at the founding of the modern day Republic. Previously, the political entities that have succeeded each other in occupying that landmass have always marked its successive political governments by individual dynastic names. This is equivalent to European monarchies marking time by the name of kings and the birth of Jesus or the French numerically designating its successive republics since the French Revolution; i.e. the 1st, 2nd, 3rd Republic.
    Han as a racial designation is also a conceptual fallacy for it was originally used simply to denote a person of the political Han dynastic empire. As a “tribal” designation, Han only gain wider usage during the Yuan and Qing dynasties in reaction to the two nomadic tribes. Even then people would just as often referred to themselves as a person of the Yuan or Qing dynasty as Han, Mongolian or Manchurian, while ironically the first wave emigrants to SE Asia and the Americas more often than not referred to themselves as the Tang people rather than “Chinese”.
    Consequently, because of its history and geopolitical location, today’s China and its predecessors have always by necessity been multi-cultural and multi-ethnic in every modern sense, such that during the Han and Tang dynasties it included peoples that we today know them as Mongolians, Koreans as well as Tibetans etc.
    Dynastic names were therefore used as both historical and political reference points as well on traditional calendars. They were never ever used as a racial designation. The Mandarin words for the English word race is “Jong Ju” which seperately means kind/origin and tribe. It has no biological connotation. Frankly, racial designation is an unhealthy perversion/obsession that grew out of the Western scientific tradition of categorisation and were taken to extreme in the political eugenics of Western and Japanese imperialism and colonialism. It is a legacy that seems to have survived to this day and have unfortunately also “infected” the psyche of many young overseas Tibetans who grew up in the West, their Western sympathisers and the Tibetan cause.

  42. Oliver says:

    @ Jay
    Actually you need to look at WHY China attacked the countries you mentioned. With the exception of Korea during the Sui dynasty whose emperor was clearly bonkers, China’s aggression was against perceived security threat from land based aggressors on its periphery. Unlike the Mongols, the Japanese, the Europeans and the Americans, China has NEVER launched an invasion by sea, even against the spice islands of SE Asia with which she traded heavily over the centuries. China’s aggression against the Western nomadic tribes has always been to secure trade routes and borders against nomadic raids. It was the same against Vietnam, whose earlier kingdoms raided into southern China. Her ONLY war against India occured because of Nerhu’s forward positioning policies. Prior to that the different Chinese dynasties have NEVER invaded India, WHY is that? Because Indian kingdoms/empires before that never invaded China.

  43. little Alex says:

    @tommydickfingers
    even if we discount the Mongolians, there’s still Ming and Qing, and the Tibetans had quite a hand in Qing politics. Even back then, its ties with the Middle Kingdom was undeniable. Most people in the West keep acting like Tibet and China had absolutely nothing to do with each other until 1949, which is simply not true. And quite frankly, even if we did invade Tibet, it was centuries ago, so we have just about equal claim on Tibet as, say, the UK has on Ireland, specifically Northern Ireland.

  44. little Alex says:

    @Neddy
    Oh, this is very real indeed. But just like the neo-cons in the States can sound pretty crazy, this guy is the same. There are plenty of people who’re a lot more moderate and enlightened. Problem is, with all the negative media coverage in the West (and of the West), the moderate voices are being shouted down.

  45. Miaka says:

    @ N Credible
    You said, “And what “research” led this buffoon to come to the idea that China comes from agrarian roots but the west was founded by nomads????”
    I have a feeling this statement originates from ideas found in the novel ‘Wolf Totem’ (Lang Tuteng) by Jiang Rong.

  46. little Alex says:

    @Neddy re BingMingMa’s links
    Since the Australian Daily Telegraph is a tabloid, I’m not even going to comment on it, but the SMH’s coverage isn’t the most unbiased either.
    They interviewed two people on the pro-Tibet side, both Australians who’re familiar with how “western” media report on things, and only interviewed one person on the opposing side. And the quotes they used weren’t even about the event itself, but the guy’s general views, which could have been summed up by the reporter in one or two sentences. Moreover, they completely failed to point out that the majority of the pro-China demonstrators were peaceful and law-abiding. I’m guessing that they just picked the most inflammatory of the guy’s remarks and threw it in to make a pretense of being fair.
    So, if I, who had next to no journalism training (other than that one class in freshman year), can spot all this, how come most readers and even the newspapers themselves claim that there aren’t any?
    I mean, I actually don’t have a problem with them being biased, per se, since all media organisations all have their own little biases here and there. I just have a problem with people not even trying.

  47. humble says:

    The guy who wrote this should send his material to “China Daily”… They would love his style.
    By the way: “Stop your prejudice and hostility. Throw away your arrogance. Come to respect, understand and experience our culture deeply. “
    And the there are no hostile or prejudiced youth in China? They are not arrogant in any way? They study (English) and respect, understand and experience western culture deeply?
    Look in a mirror, please.
    “How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?”

  48. Neddy says:

    little Alex,
    Thanks for responding. First, something that got my attention in your reply to tommydickfingers, comparing Tibet to (Northern) Ireland. Problem with this is, you neglect to note that today, the Irish can up, and go their way, so long as this is decided in a one man, one vote process in Ireland. Notice the difference? It is called progress. I see nothing of this sort in Tibet.
    As for way most people in the West are acting, I see enough of them do so in reflection on *here and now* Tibet and China reality, not the convoluted history which can be used to prove anything if try hard enough!
    As for me, I know the subject article in this post is for real. Can you tell a rhetorical question? And it is because it *is* real, that I dismiss the author as a quack he is, whether he knows it or not. Since I was born and raised in a (ex)communist country, I can tell this crapola when I hear it. No apologies for that, now or ever.
    Finally, the links: Note they are BingMingMa’s, not mine (I don’t read Telegraph, either). But on perusal, I did not find them seriously distorting anything. I have seen many pro-China demonstrators behaving like raving loonies, even though it was only a small minority who actually bashed people. Call me one-sided, but that kind of thing does not go down well here in this country. Never will. So again, no apologies from me. It was not their demonstration that got them unfavourable publicity, it was their behaviour.
    Which may partially explain why those journos did not interwiew the pro-Chinese side: Their story was what happened in most everyone’s view. The interviews were secondary, and of course visible victims were an easy pick. I agree with you on people who never try, but was that really applicable here? I mean, whom would I speak to? I know I would like to interview the arrested hoons (of both persuasions) but that could be seen as an interference in a due process of law. It could also end up to be more damaging to your “patriotic” fellow countrymen’s reputation than no interviews at all.
    Oh, and find it so amusing (but not funny) when you speak of journalistic ethics: Was what they said in those papers a lie? I do not think so. Papers do lie here, too, but just as often, an another one calls them out for it. No Party or Government permission required. The system is flawed, but self-correcting, and the result is, again, progress. See no equivalent of this in the “harmonious” country, only the Truth according to CCP. Yes, I do know number of people there. Of course, very few of them are twenty-something, privileged, spoiled brats with no perspective or first hand real-life experience.

  49. Confused says:

    @ Neddy
    Does anybody know what this guy is trying to say with his inoherent, rambling monologue?????

  50. MyLaowai says:

    “the history of China proved that china, based on agricultural culture, has never invaded other countries”
    Really? Tell that to Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia, Korea, Taiwan, India (twice), Burma, Vietnam, and Russia. And that’s just since 1949. You could also add to that list a much longer set of names of anti-government and revolutionary groups around the world that China has supported during the same period, including the Shining Path, Osama Bin Laden, and the Khmer Rouge.
    Saying that China “has never invaded other countries” is disingenuous at best, a bald faced lie at worst.
    The rest of the article is no more accurate, either.

  51. acha_manian says:

    “Really? Tell that to Tibet, East Turkestan, Mongolia, Korea, Taiwan, India (twice), Burma, Vietnam, and Russia. And that’s just since 1949. You could also add to that list a much longer set of names of anti-government and revolutionary groups around the world that China has supported during the same period, including the Shining Path, Osama Bin Laden, and the Khmer Rouge.”
    To MyLaoWai,
    1.how did china support bin Laden?? that doesnt sound right. i thought bin Laden supported uighur seperatists in turkestan, who are prosecuted and suppressed as “splittists” in china.
    2. china has pointed guns and nukes at taiwan, but i dont think they’ve ever invaded, even going back a few centuries.
    3. was india actually invaded twice by china. i can only remember the invasion in the 60′s.

  52. MikeBass14 says:

    There are serious issues with this talk or post, or whatever it was, in terms of an idea made clear to me by George Orwell, which is that, while truth and history are subjective, there are also indisputable facts, and there is also disinformation, which is very dangerous. The phenomenon of “brainwashing” in China is not in any way a denigration of Chinese people. Almost every government will try to brainwash its people if it can get away with it. The current government of the US comes to mind, specifically its success in convincing the American population that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 via comments from the administration that then bounced around the Fox “echo chamber” for months.
    That said, there is certainly anxiety in the US and Europe about the rise of China. Jealousy is not the right word, though: it is the natural concern that the powerful will take care of themselves first, and that you will be the worse off for it. That is why you don’t see the same anxiety in the third world; they don’t particularly approve of the way that the US and Europe have been running the show and have no reason to think China will be any worse.
    So while there are many untruths in 仁者无敌’s post, it is this one, which is not a question of history but of common sense, that I want to point out:
    “So, according to the western philosophy and history, the best way of China to get rid of the criticism is that we develop our country until we are much stronger than any western country. At that time, it’s our turn to criticize the western countries on the human rights, and no one dares to criticize us”
    This is patently untrue. As China becomes more powerful, and taking care of domestic needs has a greater impact on the lives of people in other countries (e.g. Sudan and Zimbabwe already) it will surely be criticized more and more. I feel for the hurt feelings of Chinese now that, when they expected trumpet fanfares and thunderous cheers, they are met with boos and jeers, but it was inevitable that they would learn that powerful countries are always hated. It is part of being powerful, and I think the “fine, I’ll just take my ball and go home then” sentiment will fade in the course of this transition.